Further Discusses "Black and White": The Unbetrayed Fu Zhigao is More Terrifying

Kong Qingdong, Location: Zhengzhou, Henan

My real specialty is studying modern novels, that is, studying novels from the past century-plus. So I'm viewing Liu Jiming's work from the perspective of Chinese novels over the past century-plus.

Perhaps everyone mainly views it from the perspective of revolutionary thought. This view is also correct. But it's insufficient to explain the artistic achievements of "Black and White." True leftists should transcend left and right, standing in the air to observe left and right.

Chairman Mao was like this, so Chairman Mao was labeled rightist among leftists. Everyone should understand that people like Chairman Mao, Lu Xun, and Confucius cannot be categorized simply as leftist or rightist. It (Black and White) is comprehensive, covering a century of China. My review title is "Mirror of a Century of History." Our century of literature's task is to promote the country's modernization. To promote modernization, we must reveal, catch, and defeat demons. Writers throughout history have completed this task, most representatively Lu Xun. Lu Xun caught many demons for us. For example, Ah Q is a demon. When revolution was needed, we should support his revolution. But Ah Q's revolution itself planted the seeds of revolutionary disaster. Later revolutionary history completely proved Lu Xun's foresight. Moreover, after Ah Q's revolutionary victory, he might first persecute his creator, persecute Lu Xun.

We must understand history from this height. So placed in the river of novels, I believe Liu Jiming's "Black and White" has very high historical and literary value. One proof is that it cannot be officially published on the mainland. This itself is proof. Liu Jiming is a famous writer in our country, a writer with leadership titles. Of course, he was previously praised by rightists as a "representative liberal writer." So I say, don't fear whether someone is leftist or rightist, don't attach labels. See if they have conscience - rightist writers can equally describe human suffering. Moreover, the more capable a person is, the less willing they are to mix with bad people, and they will turn against them. Some familiar so-called leftist big V's might have been rightists twenty years ago. So don't think someone has problems just because their views differ from yours.

How many former Kuomintang members are in our Communist Party? Native-born, deeply wronged Communists might still become traitors. In "Black and White," if you only look at the surface, you won't understand its true value. It's not simply saying what is black and what is white. It restores the proportion of black and white to their natural state. There's truly good within bad and bad within good. But it's not like rightists' confusion of right and wrong, claiming there's no good or bad in the world. There is good and bad, but distinguishing them is very difficult. The novel has several very important characters worth our consideration. Since everyone hasn't read it yet, I can only share some viewpoints to help everyone read it.

This novel has held two essay competitions. Last year we awarded prizes in Shaoshan. Originally, we were going to hold the second essay competition award ceremony these days, but the ceremony keeps getting postponed. Relevant departments want to protect us, not letting us give awards, afraid something might happen during the ceremony. So Liu Jiming can't come today. I don't know the reason - I hope he's not really ill, because there are too few capable people among the good guys. Every person, every warrior is precious. I hope Liu Jiming stays healthy; I'd rather he can't come for other reasons.

Last year Beijing prepared to commemorate Chairman Mao's birthday five times. Four times were "protected" from happening - I won't say sabotaged, but protected. Twice I was already in the car when I received calls saying, "Teacher Kong, this meeting can't be held." Twice meetings were about to begin when suddenly large numbers of police comrades arrived - and you could tell they were well-prepared. The police comrades were very polite and civilized in law enforcement, speaking reasonably and with evidence. They said, "Hello comrades, we also love Chairman Mao, we also want to commemorate Chairman Mao, but this meeting can't be held. Why? Because there are bad people."

See how well they put it - you can't deny there are bad people, right? There really are bad people, so it's to protect everyone. The current situation is similar.

So this book? On the surface, it discusses Chinese social history during the decades of reform and opening up. It involves many fields: politics, economy, culture, universities, literary circles, and underworld. Characters are vivid, not labeling who is good, but reaching Mao Dun's level.

Everyone understands Mao Dun's "Midnight." Why is our country's highest literary award the Mao Dun Literature Prize? Why do bad people always want to negate Mao Dun? From this perspective, bad people don't dare negate Lu Xun because they can't, but they want to negate people like Mao Dun.

"Black and White's" story has many subplots extending to a century of Chinese history.

Many problems appearing after reform and opening up might have existed at the beginning of revolution. For example, this novel has such a character (Song Qiankun) in high position. Why did he join revolution? Because a girl he liked was possessed by his father. His father was a landlord, so he wanted revolution. His revolutionary purpose was to defeat his father and reclaim that girl. This story isn't melodramatic but very real. We have many revolutionaries who joined revolution with various private motives. Our revolution didn't examine motives - anyone who revolutionized was a good comrade. Look at today too - if someone wants revolution, we should of course unite and support them, not question their motives. But these motives might cause other problems later. They might become true revolutionaries through revolutionary tempering. But not everyone is like this. Some leading comrades were once captured by enemies. Being captured doesn't mean they betrayed under torture. If so, the problem would be simple. What's frightening is when enemies are calculating and don't make them betray, just release them.

This matter is rather complex.

I once organized my fans to read "Red Crag" extensively. I started by frightening everyone with "Red Crag," making everyone think about a question. If you read the first half of "Red Crag" without knowing beforehand, could you tell Fu Zhigao is a traitor? Honestly, you couldn't. He was the most revolutionary person. He read Chairman Mao's articles, accurately judged the situation because revolution was about to succeed, so he worked actively. What was wrong with him? Nothing. In comparison, who weren't actively working? Jiang Jie and Xu Yunfeng seemed gray, not actively revolutionary.

Fu Zhigao's betrayal was contingent. When Xu Yunfeng discovered the bookstore was dangerous and said you've been noticed by enemies, transfer immediately tonight, Fu Zhigao would have been fine if he'd transferred that night. He just had one wrong thought - he wanted to bring beef to his wife, a bit petty bourgeois sentiment, but this was human nature. But if he hadn't delivered beef that night, he wouldn't have been captured by enemies, and revolution would have succeeded soon.

Let's imagine: after revolutionary victory, Fu Zhigao's position in the revolutionary party would have been higher than Jiang Jie's or Xu Yunfeng's. During the anti-rightist campaign, he would have labeled Jiang Jie as rightist. He would later engage in exaggeration. During the Cultural Revolution, he might have suffered some injustice, but this became his capital during reform and opening up. Right? Many things during reform and opening up were done by whom? By unbetrayed Fu Zhigaos.

So Fu Zhigao's betrayal isn't terrifying - what's terrifying is that our Party has many unbetrayed Fu Zhigaos.

Why did Chairman Mao trust a certain person so much? At such a critical moment, Chairman Mao personally spoke to preserve his Party membership. Chairman Mao had a basic judgment: he was never captured by enemies. He had no possibility of betrayal, so he was a good comrade.

Oh, if I could meet Chairman Mao's spirit in heaven, I would criticize Chairman Mao. Chairman Mao, you were too kind. This logic is probably unreliable, not 100% reliable. We used to investigate history very strictly, checking if anyone was captured by enemies. Being captured was questionable, especially without proof. He said a certain comrade was very clean, never captured by enemies, always escaping danger wisely. See why I wrote several continuous microblogs about his wise escapes? This is terrifying. He didn't betray. But his heart was different.

"Black and White" writes this kind of black-and-white intertwined complexity. Including writing about human nature today. I see a plot here: a powerful, influential Red Second Generation appears in a wheelchair. I thought, who would dare publish this? No one would dare. But it's not simple innuendo. If it were innuendo, it would be meaningless - he's not alluding to any specific person, writing very complexly. He (Hong Taihang) was a Red Second Generation with revolutionary ideals who went to Beidahuang when young. We know Beidahuang was an anti-revisionist outpost then. During the Zhenbao Island incident's confrontation with the Soviet Union, he lay in snow and froze his legs, so he became disabled later. He was a good person when young, full of revolutionary ideals, so you can't simply say his morals were bad. He later changed with the entire historical transformation - not any good person suddenly becoming bad. As a result, officials big and small coming to Beijing for business had to pay respects at his dock, had to act according to his wishes. Finally, our country's major and minor affairs were controlled by such a group of people. Then they colluded intricately with various underworld forces and local powers.

"Black and White" also writes about hope - several young people are written very well, representing revolutionary hope. I think this all comes from teacher Liu Jiming's kind writer's heart. But he doesn't write excessively - he doesn't write that they will definitely achieve victory. The future remains unknowable. It writes many revolutionary problems worth considering during the revolutionary process, including non-revolutionary problems and ordinary human nature problems.

So this novel, even by bourgeois standards, is an excellent novel, very excellent. It gives us more inspiration to think, not to simply attach labels, saying who's bad, what problems reform and opening up produced. It prompts us to think about how these problems came about, why these problems exist.

I think he fulfilled an excellent writer's responsibility.

Teacher Liu Jiming is quite proud of this novel, somewhat negating his previous creations. He says his previous thinking was wrong. I don't see it that way. I affirm all excellent literary works. His previous works as a rightist writer were still very good, just didn't point to the revolutionary path. This novel he's written now - I also found some detailed problems for him. Because it's so massive - three parts covering a century of history - it involves a place called Dajiang City, which is actually Wuhan. Such a big city's history might have some inaccuracies in details. Wuhan is a very complex city. When I went to Wuhan for the sixth time, I wrote an article called "Sixth Time to Wuhan." I said Wuhan could have the character "great" added in front - Great Wuhan.

Wuhan was also a city Chairman Mao valued greatly. Chairman Mao liked staying at Wuhan's East Lake. Moreover, the Cultural Revolution's turning point was the July 20th incident, which occurred in Wuhan. The Wuhan July 20th incident still hasn't been completely investigated. But actually, it was the reactionary forces' "Xi'an Incident" - a showdown with Chairman Mao! Meaning if you keep doing this, we'll all rebel! Just without completely breaking face. So after the July 20th incident, Chairman Mao retreated across the board. He returned to his correct military principles, knowing he couldn't act recklessly. Because the army still had to be relied upon. If the army became chaotic, it wouldn't work. The front-line commander of the July 20th incident, Chen Zaidao, went to Beijing, and Huang Yongsheng even slapped him. In the end, Chairman Mao still protected Chen Zaidao. Chairman Mao actively let these capitalist roaders return to lead the country. This also shows the difficulty of revolutionary cause. When we lack revolutionary consciousness, we need to develop it and inspire others. After developing revolutionary consciousness, we must think about deeper, farther problems. With a very rational, responsible attitude, while full of revolutionary emotion, think about this history, think about human nature.

Because I participated in this essay competition ("I Read 'Black and White'"), I've seen book reviews and reading reflections - very good. Everyone writes from one angle, especially some young people write well. If you haven't read this book yet, I think you should finish it in a month - it's absolutely worthwhile. It's a first-class masterpiece in the century of literary history and will remain in Chinese literary history. Moreover, its publication and reading history will itself constitute history.

Among us, there seem to be friends who write novels. I know many of our righteous comrades want to create. We must overcome shouting slogans and attaching labels in creation. These are mistakes the Left League made before. At the Left League founding meeting, Lu Xun was invited to speak, and Lu Xun threw cold water. At the founding meeting, Lu Xun's first sentence was, "I worry leftists will become rightists." This is true foresight. Don't revolution when there's no revolution; when there is revolution, be rational about it.

I think teacher Liu's book can artistically awaken our consciousness in this regard. He's not here today, but I congratulate him again. After everyone reads this book, let's exchange ideas again if we have the chance. Any questions?

Host: Someone wants to ask questions.

Reader: For example, some of our people were good during revolution, but after success they're not necessarily good people anymore. Like you said about Ah Q - if Ah Q's revolution succeeded, he'd still be that kind of Ah Q. This is actually the historical cycle problem. May I ask, if revolution succeeds again, how can we escape this historical cycle problem?

Kong Qingdong: The same revolution probably won't happen again. Because productive forces have changed greatly, production methods have changed greatly. Today we've entered a completely intelligent era. Although revolutionary spirit remains unchanged, revolutionary methods have already changed. So I repeatedly emphasize that today's Jinggangshan is not in Jiangxi, not in Henan, but on the internet. We must persist in internet struggle. We must master high technology. We can't watch high technology being controlled unlimitedly by capital.

The Communist Party's success has many secrets - not just being able to fight. The Communist Party first excels at economics and finance, second at grasping culture, third at grasping technology. The Communist Party's success always grasps the most advanced technology. Whatever technology is most advanced at the time, the Communist Party grasps it. For example, telegraph technology - the Kuomintang was so wealthy but couldn't outplay the Communist Party at telegraphs. The Communist Party with just a few broken radios played the Kuomintang around - that's valuing technology and technological talent. After capturing Kuomintang talent, they immediately used them while educating them, gradually educating them to come over. Like aircraft pilots, telegraph operators, medical personnel. So grasping science and technology is very important.

I just mentioned we need to spread revolutionary thinking among technical personnel. Technical personnel and the tech world are also disaster areas - many scientists have very reactionary thinking. Initially contacting them is very repugnant, but you must be patient. Present facts, reason with them. You must believe that as scientific technical personnel, they will acknowledge truth. Sometimes it's difficult because we don't understand their specialties. But we must persist in this work. Gradually, when more technical personnel have revolutionary thinking, revolution will succeed.

In this regard, North Korea does particularly well. North Korea's party flag has a brush on it. Our party flag doesn't have elements representing intellectuals, but North Korea's party flag has elements representing intellectuals, so North Korea's intellectuals are one heart with the party. Unlike our China.

Look at our China's intellectuals - they're not one heart with the party, because there's no representation of them on the party flag. North Korea's intellectuals never oppose the party. Rightists always curse me, saying "you should go to North Korea." I say you don't know anything about what North Korea is like. North Korea university professors are treated extremely well. If I went to North Korea, they'd first give me a 300-meter mansion, then the organization would assign me a car and secretary. I say, how do you know what life North Korean intellectuals live?

So we must spread revolutionary thinking among intellectuals and technical personnel. Our party did this too - as early as the 1930s, we won over many scientists, not after founding the country. This party is truly remarkable. In Yan'an, in those broken cave dwellings, they were already thinking about how to get scientists in America to return to work. I'm very moved seeing this. I say, how did they think of this? The Japanese devils weren't defeated yet, right? How did they think of getting scientists back? Right after founding the country, they started - the work on people like Qian Xuesen, planned long ago. And think, those scientists returning to China, the highest salary was maybe 200-300 yuan per month, which was very high then, right? But in America they made hundreds of dollars monthly, not counting other income. What did you use to attract them? What advantages did you have? Just five words: "The motherland needs you." Hearing this brings tears.

What era was that? What was the party's image? Saying these five words could bring scientists back. Even those who didn't return worked for the motherland. Like Li Zhengdao and Yang Zhenning - they didn't return but worked for the motherland. The party's heart of serving the people let technical personnel all know.

"Black and White" also writes very well about the intellectual field - how they betrayed the people. This aspect is also revealed very well. I was a university student in the 1980s - reading it felt very intimate. 1980s campus life is written very vividly - how to eat, how to dance, how to have parties. Teacher Liu himself came through this way - he was also an early university student.